Ellie Light writes........".We recognized that the problems Barack Obama inherited wouldn’t go away overnight............and........" Governing is hard work, and a president can’t just wave a magic wand and fix everything."...........

.

In my opinion, Ellie, Barack Obama has created more problems than he has inherited and thank God that he doesn't have a "magic wand" as his ideas to "fix"everything" would be disasterous to this nation.

Sarah Menkin, your thoughts are appreciated. Pro-abortion libs use the words embryo and fetus to dehumanize the unborn. A fetus, a baby, a child - are all human, much like you and I. Calling it like it is would force abortion lovers to face the truth of what they support, which is the murder of fellow humans.

Alice - The next time you buy a car, go find the highest priced vehicle you can at the local junk yard. It won't be perfect, but I'm sure that over the years you can sink a lot of money into fixing it.

Sarah - You are correct; life begins at conception. Abortion is murder. Embrionic stem cells are potential lives and should be protected.

Ellie - It didn't take 8 years to ruin the economy. It only took 2, and the Dems were in charge of the House and Senate during that 2 years. Remember Government 101.....the President only signs bills; he doesn't spend or control the money.....Congress does.

Ok, so you left your job in Califonria to "come home" and you didn't have a job lined up? How the hell is that my problem? If you can't afford to health care in Maine why not go back to your old job in California? Ever hear that a bird in hand is worth 10 in the bush? Give me a break...maybe I should quit my job, move across the country, and then expect to be taken care of.

Burger King is hiring, apply online.

Alice, I'm sure you honestly think it's right that somebody else should pay for your health insurance, but I think you should. It's up to you to make a living for yourself and pay for all the things you decide you want and need, including food, shelter, toys, clothing, entertainment, automobiles, and healthcare.

Some employers provide company cars or other perks, and some employers, even right here in Maine, provide health insurance as a benefit. If you want a company car so you don't have to buy one yourself, apply for jobs with companies that provide company cars, and if you want to not have to pay for your healthcare, apply for jobs at employers that include health insurance in their benefit package. If you don't have the skills that these jobs require, get that training and then reapply. But if you want to choose to do your own thing and work for yourself, I don't think you should be expecting the rest of us, who are also barely making it as it is, to pay for your health insurance. If you can't afford to pay for it yourself, and you can't, or aren't inclined to get a job at an employer who provides it, maybe you'll have to move to someplace where your skills are in demand enough so someone will pay you enough money so you can afford to buy all the things you need/want, including health insurance. Good luck.

Maybe I am missing something but haven't the Libs been in control of congress for quite some time? Was not Odrama Part of said congress for 2 years? If obummer has inherited anything he and his party are just as responsible as everyone else in government!!!!

Ms. Kaiserian - I suspect that what is happening is that you are beginning to understand why moving to Maine was a bad plan.

Alice, as you can read, Maine people are not very welcoming to this state. Unless of course you are wealthy and can buy property along the coast or a tourist that spends their vacation dollars then leaves.

Why is it a baby when the pregnancy is wanted and a fetus if it's going to be aborted as inconvenient????

Ellie Light' Obama did not inherit anything He knew first hand what he was getting into and wanted the job anyway.

Alice, My wife and I moved back to Maine from Texas last year. Found a job before making the big leap. I was lucky to find something in my field but I would have taken anything just to have a job. it is alot easier to find work when already employed. I jhave to agree with Jeffrey on this one. Why is a lack of planning on your part a concern on my part? Take whatever you can get, even if it has low pay, crappy hours and conditions, and "beneath you".

A job is a job. get over yourself.

To Alice Kaiserian, Have you ever thought of a low premium high deductable plan. I have seen them for 90/ month. You cover everything up to 5000.00 then the insurance covers at 100%. I know owing 5000.00 dollars can be a hardship but it would cover any major medical events that may pop up in your transition to a new career. Just a thought. Welcome Home and good luck.

I almost forgot. We dont need universal health care. People make the choice not to have insurance. Those that cannot afford it we are already paying for anyways. We should be focusing on Tort reform .

"During his campaign, Obama clearly said that an economy that took eight years to break couldn’t be fixed in a year,"

What he's done (with the help of Congress) so far, resembles a Mafia "Bust Out". Pile on an insurmountable debt and remove as much cash before walking away.

He's nothing more than an arrogant little punk with no brains or experience, blaming Bush for every policy gaffe he makes. From here on out we should require candidates to have at least held one job, even if it was only 2 weeks. Hopefully, he'll be the last affimative action President we elect.

6:22 am, you wrote "Take whatever you can get, even if it has low pay, crappy hours and conditions, and "beneath you".

So which of those kinds of jobs provide health insurance?

Alice, You have the same mindset many people do about health insurannce, thinking it is a right, and not a privelige. Someone else posted that you can find a high deductible, low premium plan. But, I would like to address something that has bothered me for a long time, and I don't know if Alice falls into this:

too many people "choose" their luxuries in their lives, over health insurance. I will give several true examples, about people I know personally. Both families have this mindset, and cry about not having health insurance. In one instance, a family had people organizing fundraisers for procedures. One family has 4 horses. They have a new horse trailer, worth $15,000. They have a lovely barn. They spend many weekends during the spring, summer, fall attending horse shows throughout the state, and sometimes out of state. Does anyone know how much one horse costs to feed and house, let alone 4? One weekend away, showing horses, can often cost $300+! Entry fees per event can be $50 each! The other family is deeply involved in stock car racing. They also own a trailer to transport to races throughout New England, and beyond. They have a RV to stay in for their weekends!!!!!! Yet, both families truly believe society owes them free medical care. I don't get it. This is a mindset that has been evolving for about 30 yrs now, and people truly believe society owes them this.

Alice, try Wal Mart, Home Depot, etc. These employers offer decent jobs, with insurance.

11:00 PM, demsuk64: Great Comment.

Sarah M. Menkin:You are, of course , correct.

As another poster stated, it's their way of de-

humanizing to justify the end result.

5:42 AM, kmainer : That's a great question.

7:33 AM, anne_of_mdi : So the answer is sit back and wait

till something comes along that "they can feel good about doing" ?

Ladyslipper: Ya, sure! And GWB didn't initiiate the cash giveaway to Wall Street. It's amazing how much the whackos seem to forget after eight years of the big taxpayer giveaway to the wealthy. For example, there's NO Estate tax this year thanks to Georgie boy. The AVERAGE taxpayer gets to pick up that tab instead of those that should've paid it. So if you're obscenely wealthy and kick off this year, no taxes on your estate. We're talking millions and millions here, so don't give me the "death tax" crap if you have no understanding of WHY estate taxes have existed for so long. It's to prevent "kingdoms" from rising from families such as Dupont, etc.. Without estate taxation, it would be theoretically possible for all (or the bulk) of our country's wealth to accumulate, over time, in a single family or group. Having the (private) Federal Reserve bank is bad enough.

InsideFever: Maybe you should keep your self righteous nose out of women's crotches.

EJParsons: It has been my experience that people of your bent are usually all set and slopping at the taxpayer trough, usually with some form of free healthcare on someone else's ticket. You've obviously never been self employed or had to COBRA. I can get health insurance for about 1/10th of what I would have to pay up home as long as I stay "offshore" over 181 days a year. Your ilk simply wants to congratulate and reward the health insurance industry with obscene profits. People who simply do nothing other than deny coverage, and stand between you and your doctor.

Ya, EJ. GWB had nothing to do with driving this economy down the tubes. The last two huge real estate booms occurred under 1.) Reagan and 2.) Bush. And where was McCain during the S&L debacle? He came quite close to indictment over the Lincoln Savings and Loan scandal, but dodged a bullet there while his buddies went to prison. Do you have political Alzheimer's, or what?

Oh, and keep your nose out of women's crotches. it's none of your stinking business.

Demsku64- you're just an a-hole. And probably on the dole in one way or another. And clearly support the thugs that stand between the patient and the doctor and steal a cut of the $$.

I'm a libertarian, and proud of it. Most of you proclaimed right wingers are just shills for industry and listen to WAY too much VOM-it radio.

Bangorean - People of my ilk served time in uniform to ensure that people of your ilk have the right to be rude and ignorant. People of my ilk put their lives on the line to retain the freedoms and liberties that this president is doing his best to take away. People of my ilk do not slop at the taxpayer's trough, we contribute to this nation with every breath we take. People of my ilk pay the taxes that allow so many to sit back and demand more and more freebies. People of my ilk care for this nation and are becoming more and more aware of the marxist/socialist agenda now being unconstitutionaly pushed down out throats by a bunch of anti-American politicians that wouldn't recognize sacrifice if it hit them in the face. People of my ilk realize that the government, and that includes both parties, needs to be slapped into realizing that they work for us, not for special interests or for their own wealth. People of my ilk are willing to die before falling on our knees to worship at the alter of socio/marxism. People of my ilk will not give up the freedoms and liberties that so many before us fought and died for. People of my ilk care for the unborn children that have become throw-aways in this cold, immoral society. And people of my ilk can plainly see that you show no signs of being a libertarian.

Regarding today's letters:

The current health bill is a bad deal. dump it and begin again. As to the comments on this, it could be argued that health care (at some level) is a right, and the "United States Declaration of Independence clearly states that US citizens should have the RIGHT to "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" all three being tenuous without good health.

Abortion is like gay marriage, if you don't like it, don't have one. As to the commenters; I am the only person I know on the face of the planet who "loves" abortion, so unless you can point to others, you really ought to use the singular rather than the plural.

Obama promised "openness and transparency" the lack of it in his administration can be blamed on only one individual, and that is NOT George Bush.

EJParsons: people of your ilk shrug off the thousands of civilians, including children killed in the war as "necessary collateral damage" to protect US interests. People of you ilk think that an unborn fetus, even at only a few weeks is a precious life that no one has the right to take away event to protect the mothers interests. Do you see the irony?

ConnieD: good point. How many people are so poor that baby number three needs to sleep in the box that the new TV came in?

On 1/21/10 at 9:43 AM, HarryHSnyderIII wrote: Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

Regarding today's letters:

The current health bill is a bad deal. dump it and begin again. As to the comments on this, it could be argued that health care (at some level) is a right, and the "United States Declaration of Independence clearly states that US citizens should have the RIGHT to "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" all three being tenuous without good health.

Harry, not sure if you wrote that tongue in cheek, but that's one of the more humorous justifications I've seen for the entitlement mentality that's currently in vogue here in the US. But how am I supposed to exercise my RIGHT to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness without a nice car and a warm house to live in? And surely you don't expect me to seriously pursue happiness here in frigid Maine during winter vacations when that pursuit would be so much easier on a Caribbean beach? Sure, my odds of having good health would improve a lot if I'd eat/drink less and exercise more, but those things require self discipline and sweat on my part, and if healthcare is my RIGHT, why should I work so hard for what's already guaranteed to me by the Declaration of Independence?

Healthcare is NOT a right, it's a commodity that we all have the privilege to purchase or not purchase, depending on what we think our needs are in that area.

EJParsons, thank you for your service to our country. Also , keep up the great posts, this site really needs them.

Ellie, you sound young. Pocket the $600.00 every month. Put it in your own personal health saving's account. Purchase a catastrophic health policy. Something that covers you in case of a severe illness. Go for your yearly. It won't cost too much. Be careful what you wish for and after reading your letter I seriously doubt you know what is in the current health care legislation proposed by Obama. Under his plan you would have to buy insurance or you would pay a fine or you would go to jail. Costs would go up, we'd still have uninsured Americans and eventually care would be rationed. Doubt this? Look at what is going on in MA.

Bangorean you most certainly are not a Libertarian....Infact by reading your posts you espouse everything that isn't Libertarian. Did you mean to say Liberal, you do know that they are exact opposites, don't you?

By the way nice job EJP!

8:40 Bangorean If women kept something else out of their crotches we wouldn't have to argue about this issue.

No one forces you to buy health insurance. If you don't want anyone else involved between you and your doctor then it is your choice.

The real estate booms had little to do with either Reagan or Bush. In both cases they were initiated by policies of congress. In Bushe's case he warned congress at lest three times that there was potential disaster and was ignored by congress every time.

libertarian my a--. LMAO You have no idea what a libertarian is if you support bigger government and higher taxes. You are an uber-progressive.

Does anyone else on here find it disturbing that the president of the United States had a Mao Tse Tsung Christmas ornament on their "holiday tree"?

Anybody here find it ironic as hell that so many pro-lifers are praising the election of Scott Brown?

I mean, he is, after all, pro-choice with the exception of partial-birth abortions and tax funded abortions... a view I agree with wholeheartedly.

I don't get it. If abortion at any stage is "murder", why celebrate an official who believes in a woman's right to choose?

What I hear is everyone opposing healthcare reform are those who have healthcare and are expressing anger over the possibility of paying for others’ healthcare coverage. What they do not seem to understand is… they pay for the uninsured now in covert ways. For instance… after I had aortic surgery I received a printout of the bill that was sent to my insurance company. I was charged $2500.00 for “blood an blood products.” My surgeon told me I would be anemic for a while because they did not give me blood or blood products. This was an obvious padding and I’m sure there were other things they billed for just because they could, knowing the insurance company would pay it. The insurance company has no intention of taking a loss, and the surgeon certain wouldn’t lower his profit so the extra expense is passed on to the people who are insured by that company either by increased premiums, or decreased coverage. Healthcare reform should remove the ability to get rich by insurance executives and providers. Doctors oppose it because they want to become wealthy. They should be paid well, but they should not have the ability to become millionaires from just do their job. Profit driven healthcare in not only inefficient but immoral.

I would rather know the cost of covering others up front rather than be deceived and having my bills padded by providers. If you know what the cost is, you have more control over it.

Oh Ladyslipper and EJ...do you get any channels besides Faux "News" Do you REALLY believe the foolishness you blather on here about the economy being ruined ONLY since the Dems took over Congress? I'll remind you that from 2006-2008 the Dems had a SLIGHT majority which your ReDUMBlican President could easily block. Sigh...Did both of you remove the left hand turn signal from your cars as well?????????

Not to beat a dead horse, but the Bush Administration crippled the economy in at least two major ways:

1. by launching an invasion of Iraq based on lies (Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11) and false premeses (WMD), and

2. by cutting taxes on the super-wealthy.

In my opinion, Obama made a tactical mistake by not going hard for single-payer. When the Republicans shot that down, the resulting "compromise" would have looked like something reasonable, instead of a cave-in to the insurance companies.

11:56 hankwilliams 1. Please give a source for where the Bush administration even once said that Saddam Hussein was connected to 9/11. This is a lie that has been repeated so many times that many accept it as truth. You will find many sources where the administration connected Saddam Hussein to other terrorism.

2. Progressive talking point to encourage class warfare to gain votes and power. Please explain the exact mechanism by which tax cuts crippled the economy?

tedlick: re 10:55 AM It's called hypocrisy.

Before, Snowe and Collins were "Rhinos",etc etc. Now all of a sudden, they are not being "dished" so much.

Also, I could really care less about Brown and his posing nude back when....but if that had been a Democrat, you would be hearing all about it on here from certain contigents.

Coakley ran a poor and lackluster campaign for one thing. (I am not saying that is the only reason she lost in Mass.) It is what it is. Sometimes Democrats win (and the people speak.) Sometimes Republicans wins (and the people speak.) That is the way it always has been, and continues to be.

tedlick: Contingents, rather.

Alice, you mean well, but you don't understand that govt run healthcare is not the answer. it gives too much power to the govt, and takes away too many personal freedoms. theres alot more at stake here than your personal financial situation. theres no such thing as a free lunch.

Saddam Hussein funded Al Queda(sp), Hamas and other terrorist organizations this is a fact that is beyond doubt....He used chemical and Bio weapons on his own people (Kurds) also a fact. He had Mustard gas, Sarin and other WMD's in his country at the time the Gulf War started which were trucked to Syria and buried in the sand, yet again another fact. Too bad he's dead since the Democrats would of like to elect him to be our president.

12:39 PM, Obamaoluva

Sources...

Without them, that statement is meaningless. There have been, to date, NO significant ties between the Hussein government if Iraq and Al Queda.

The chemical weapons used on the Kurds WE GAVE HIM to fight Iran with. And I'm sure you're referring to the Halabja poison gas attack which happened in 1988 (wish I could make numbers all caps!). Yes, 1988... a long time before Georgie was in office.

No WMDs have been found to date. None... notta... zilch. What was found was old weaponry and chemicals he obtained from the US to fight against Iran, much of which was well past its shelf life.

Your Syria theory is a favorite among tin-foil hat types, but there is not one shred of evidence to support it, though you call it "fact". But it is very very good fodder to sell a book: nothing more.

There's no connection. None. Nadda. We invaded a sovereign nation, the most westernized in the Middle East, for no just cause and you still rely on lies and direct misquotes to justify it.

Sick sick sick.

Education... it would do you much good.

On 1/20/10 at 7:34 PM, Ladyslipper wrote: In my opinion, Ellie, Barack Obama has created more problems than he has inherited

A little problem seeing what is right before your eyes Sharon?

Demographicwinter.com Get the DVD. Scientific research based on social science studies with the gathering of statistics. A must see. Liberal, progressive break up of families, low birth numbers. Watch the clips. Very informative.

On 1/21/10 at 12:39 PM, Obamaoluva wrote: Saddam Hussein funded Al Queda(sp),

Al Qaeda had nothing to do with Saddam, they despised him. He was the leader of the only country in the region that was not a theocracy, or at least ruled by Imams behind the scenes.

Hey Tedlicker I was there....USMC, theres a heck of a lot that happened over there that you don't know about. We never gave Iraq chems to fight Iran, that is ridiculous. We banned the use of Mustard gas after WWI, again you are woefully ignorant...Why would we have an obsolete weapon in our arsenal. If we wanted to use such weapons we'd use VX or a much more deadly agent. Again you know nothing....Hussien most asuredly sponsored terrorism. And by the way YOUR partty (DEM) voted for the war.....So what's your point? Also Obamao said we'd be out of the Middle East at this time so why are we still there. I think we should pull out now! By the way I have three college degrees(Tech) it is you that need to school up! Semper Fi liberal!

The Kurds were killed with Soviet era chems.....If fact there are pics of the spent artillery shells with Crylic writting on them. Man you are out there dude!

2:37 PM, Obamaoluva

"Hussien most asuredly sponsored terrorism"

Any source? Nah... didn't think so. Blowing smoke just like any other fool, Demopublican or Republicrat, that supports that waste of taxpayer money.

And by the way if the Demopublicans are my party, then you're a Greenie... You must vote for Greenies if you believe I voted for a Demopublican.

I don't care what Barry said about the war. In entering Iraq under Bush's administration, we had no justification except UN nods of approval (since when does a Republican give a damn about the UN?). No ties to terrorism under Husein's regime have ever been found: nor any modern WMDs that could have done any real damage. I'd love for you to provide sources that disprove that, but I left my tinfoil hat at home.

We had no reason to be there, we have no reason to be there.

And the degrees are wasted. You're still a half-brained hack.

"Cliches about supporting the troops are designed to distract from failed policies, policies promoted by powerful special interests that benefit from war, anything to steer the discussion away from the real reasons the war in Iraq will not end anytime soon." MY presidential candidate, Dr. Ron Paul.

Saddam's Iran wasn't invaded for being part of Al Qaeda, it was invaded because they were disregarding UN sanction after UN sanction that demanded Saddam live up to the terms of his surrender in Desert Storm, or else. Instead, he continued to refuse to cooperate with weapons inspectors and kept shooting at US jets that were there to verify his compliance.

If another murdering despot, (western or not) invades another country but is beaten back by UN and US forces, but then refuses to abide by the terms of surrender and also refuses to allow verification that his forces are no longer prepared to use WMD's similar to those they have used on enemies in the past, and ignores UN resolutions demanding compliance, should we just shrug and walk away, or should we enforce what we said noncompliance would bring?

Iraq had Al Quedea Training camps in country, I could care less if you chose to believe it or not, it's a documented fact. Look it up yourself, I don't have time to waste on your absurd delusions. Jeffery is 100% correct that the reason that we invaded was because Saddam refused to let UN wep inspectors in. Do you know why he didn't? Because, at the time he was burying them and hiding them in Syria.

By the way tedlicker you said "The chemical weapons used on the Kurds WE GAVE HIM to fight Iran with."......No they were Soviet weapons!

We haven't had that in our arsenal for almost 100 years. Care to comment on that or any other of your egregious errors?

tedlick here's a sources - http://www.cfr.org/publication/9513/#p1

Has Iraq sponsored terrorism?

Yes. Saddam Hussein’s dictatorship provided headquarters, operating bases, training camps, and other support to terrorist groups fighting the governments of neighboring Turkey and Iran, as well as to hard-line Palestinian groups. During the 1991 Gulf War, Saddam commissioned several failed terrorist attacks on U.S. facilities. Prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the State Department listed Iraq as a state sponsor of terrorism. The question of Iraq’s link to terrorism grew more urgent with Saddam’s suspected determination to develop weapons of mass destruction (WMD), which Bush administration officials feared he might share with terrorists who could launch devastating attacks against the United States.

What type of terrorist groups did Iraq support under Saddam Hussein’s regime?

Primarily groups that could hurt Saddam’s regional foes. Saddam has aided the Iranian dissident group Mujahadeen-e-Khalq and the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (known by its Turkish initials, PKK), a separatist group fighting the Turkish government. Moreover, Iraq has hosted several Palestinian splinter groups that oppose peace with Israel , including the mercenary Abu Nidal Organization, whose leader, Abu Nidal, was found dead in Baghdad in August 2002. Iraq has also supported the Islamist Hamas movement and reportedly channeled money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. A secular dictator, however, Saddam tended to support secular terrorist groups rather than Islamist ones such as al-Qaeda, experts say.

Has Iraq ever used weapons of mass destruction?

Yes. In the 1980s Iran-Iraq War, Iraqi troops repeatedly used poison gas, including mustard gas and the nerve agent sarin, against Iranian soldiers. Iranian officials have also accused Iraq of dropping mustard-gas bombs on Iranian villages. Human Rights Watch reports that Iraq frequently used nerve agents and mustard gas against Iraqi Kurds living in the country’s north. In March 1988, Saddam’s forces reportedly killed thousands of Iraqi Kurds in the town of Halabja with chemical weapons.

Thanks JD....I'm working and don't have time to babysit Teddyboy. Everything you posted is 100% up and up. Good job!

3:22 PM, Obamaoluva

You're a very bad troll, do you know that? So bad, that all it takes is to string along a few bs statements against something you've posted and you go off like a shotgun. What a kick in the pants.

I do believe the Iraq war was a waste of US time and money... I know the official reason we were in Iraq, and I know Jeffery was right, but how often do we actually pay attention to the UN's interests? Iraq has never been a threat to us, and if we're going to start invading countries due to genocide, we're long overdue in Africa. Nor do I believe the Syria comments... that would have justified the reality of WMDs: I can't see why our government would have let it go. Not to mention that those "hidden" WMDs have a rather short shelf life in the greater scheme of things, so somebody better get to using them.

I will thank you for the entertainment this afternoon, and also for cluing me in why we haven't kicked enough tail to be exiting Iraq and Afghanistan: if the military is letting people like you in (especially the Marine Corps), we're in for a long ride...

tedlick, here is another link regarding Hussein and WMDs - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/etc/arsenal.html

Iraq's Nuclear Weapons Program

"Nuclear physicist and Iraqi defector Khidhir Hamza agrees. He told FRONTLINE that Iraq did not relinquish certain critical components of the nuclear program to the inspectors, and that it retains the expertise necessary to build a nuclear weapon. He believes that Iraq may have one completed within the next couple of years."

Iraq's Biological Weapons (BW) Program

"In July, 1995, Iraq acknowledged that between 1988 and 1991, it had produced two BW agents in bulk: botulinum toxin and Bacillus anthracis spores (anthrax). Iraq reported 19,180 liters of botulinum toxin (10-20 fold concentrated) and 8445 liters of Bacillus anthracis spores (10 fold concentrated).

UNSCOM found, however, that "bulk warfare agent production appears to be considerably understated," given the resources available to Iraq's BW program, including growth media and fermenter capacity. The Commission said that the production rate of Botulinum toxin could be as much as double the stated amount, and 3 times greater than that stated for Bacillus anthracis spores."

Iraq's Chemical Weapons (CW) Program

"UNSCOM was more successful in its pursuit of Iraq's CW program largely because Iraq was more cooperative with its disclosures. The final report notes that a "significant number" of chemical weapons, their components, and related equipment were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision between 1991 and 1997."

Tedlicker....Still waiting for your response to the "The chemical weapons used on the Kurds WE GAVE HIM to fight Iran with." That YOU said.....Where do you moonbats get this stuff? Do you just make things up? And whats with the 'tude? What a matter? Your mommy didn't like you?

3:27 PM, JD2008

I know... it's just too damned easy

Everybody in the Middle East supports some form of terrorism... on man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. But that hasn't caused us to invade any other countries, and wasn't part of the "official" cause for invasion.

At any rate, my fun with Barrylover is over for the day.

3:37 PM, Barrylover

*sigh*... Go back and read Barrylover... Yes, it was indeed just made up. God, you're easier than sunfish in August.

The tude? No real tude... just acknowledging a serious deficit in our nations armed forces.

Sticks and stones.....Teddyboy. You are one hostile person! Keep up the personal attacks I love 'em. You know your wrong about everything you state, so call me names if it helps. It doesn't bother me....I've had much worse hurled at me.

3:22 PM, Obamaoluva wrote: Iraq had Al Quedea Training camps in country

Do you not recall that the US also had a training camp? WE trained Bin Laden to help the Afghans. We have trained many people in the past who were the enemy of our enemy. We found out the hard way that does not make him your friend.

Seeker, here ya go (source: The Center for Public Integrity):

President George W. Bush and seven of his administration's top officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, made at least 935 false statements in the two years following September 11, 2001, about the national security threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Nearly five years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, an exhaustive examination of the record shows that the statements were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses.

On at least 532 separate occasions (in speeches, briefings, interviews, testimony, and the like), Bush and these three key officials, along with Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan, stated unequivocally that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (or was trying to produce or obtain them), links to Al Qaeda, or both. This concerted effort was the underpinning of the Bush administration's case for war.

It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to Al Qaeda. This was the conclusion of numerous bipartisan government investigations, including those by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (2004 and 2006), the 9/11 Commission, and the multinational Iraq Survey Group, whose "Duelfer Report" established that Saddam Hussein had terminated Iraq's nuclear program in 1991 and made little effort to restart it.

In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003. Not surprisingly, the officials with the most opportunities to make speeches, grant media interviews, and otherwise frame the public debate also made the most false statements, according to this first-ever analysis of the entire body of prewar rhetoric.

President Bush, for example, made 232 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and another 28 false statements about Iraq's links to Al Qaeda. Secretary of State Powell had the second-highest total in the two-year period, with 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 10 about Iraq's links to Al Qaeda. Rumsfeld and Fleischer each made 109 false statements, followed by Wolfowitz (with 85), Rice (with 56), Cheney (with 48), and McClellan (with 14).

3:43 PM, Obamaoluva

As long as it's this much fun, you can count on it.

'Later.

There is an old saying.....

"Keep your enemies close and your friends closer"

Seems like good advice.

Acutally JD....It's "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer...."Tsun Tsu....."The Art of War"...Sorry, your right about everything else though buddy!

On 1/21/10 at 3:43 PM, concernsme wrote: "Do you not recall that the US also had a training camp? ..."

I never said we didn't...What's your point. Loyalties and relationships change in the middle east at the drop of a hat. Your statement is pointless...

Hanky boy the "The Center for Public Integrity"...Is a far left whacked out organization. You might as well be getting your facts from Kieth Olberwoman himself. Read JD's posts, his sources aren't biased as yours are.

On 1/21/10 at 3:42 PM, tedlick wrote:"... just acknowledging a serious deficit in our nations armed forces."

Why don't you join up hero...They could use a real woman over there to dig latrines and cook.

Obamaoluva, the Center simply documemted incidents of false statements collected by others, including the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the 9/11 Commission, and the multinational Iraq Survey Group. Sorry, but you can't dismiss the source of every statement you disagree with as coming from "a far left whacked out organization." This is a classic logical fallacy known as "argumentum ad hominem," which means you are attacking the source, and not the veracity of the argument itself. If a liberal told you that 2+2=4, you would say he's a far-left moonbat and therefore that can't possibly be true. At least Seeker is willing to have a discussion, much as we disagree. You're just obnoxious.

What many people don't seem to realize is that the U.S. brought about the eventual downfall of the Soviet Union by working with the Afghans after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. That was a good thing. The down side was that, yes, we had to let the Afghans in on shoulder-launch missile technology, etc. If we ever decided to "really go to war" in Afghanistan, I doubt it would take very long to bring them to their knees, or worse. Maybe we have to recognize this as a price we have to pay for having ended the "old" Cold War, as well as being Israel's principal supporter. It certainly would be nice to wrap things up.

On 1/21/10 at 3:55 PM, Obamaoluva wrote:

I never said we didn't...What's your point. Loyalties and relationships change in the middle east at the drop of a hat.

Why is that a reason to oust Saddam because he had terrorist training camps, but not ok to attack America for the same reason? Not advocating an attack, just playing devil's advocate here. You listed that as one of the reasons the war was justified. I'm as glad he's gone as most people.

"But that hasn't caused us to invade any other countries"

I've always loved this argument when it comes to international affairs.

Kind of makes it sound like they are saying "if you can't stop all the murderers don't stop any!"

Pretty lame reply really.

As for the official reasons for the invasion there were many given in Bush's speech but those on the left only want to point at the one they think gives them a case.

And then there are the monday morning quarterbackers in the left who like to go back and count all the incorrect intel as false statements. They are the same ones who took the super vague warnings that planes might someday hit buildings and demand to know "What Bush knew and When did he kno it?" with as much outrage as they can muster.

It seems in the case of some intel they want you to take action no matter how vague but in the case of other intel you should know it is wrong and do nothing.

Nice to have that leftist crystal ball and it is comforting that since Obama is the President and as far left as he can be he now has it at his disposal.

Ohhhh but wait!

His people just missed a pretty big ugly one that almost got a plane blown up didn't they?

Wow how could that be?

"Obamaoluva, the Center simply documemted incidents of false statements collected by others, including the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the 9/11 Commission, and the multinational Iraq Survey Group. Sorry, but you can't dismiss the source of every statement you disagree with as coming from "a far left whacked out organization."

What the far left organization does is call it a "false statement" which implies LIE.

As opposed to saying the truth which is that some of their intel was wrong and they relied on it.

Bit of a spin there.

Bush lied people died.....Blah, blah, blah....Bush is gone, long gone. Don't blame Bush for the faulty intel. All the Dems in congress signed off on it. Including War Hero John Kerry (who fought in Vietnam), who voted for it....Before for he voted against it. Continualy blaming Bush for all the countries ills is not only counter-productive but it's just really getting old. I think we should of taken out Saddam, he was a dink. He was the biggest mass murder in the world at the time and a supporter of terrorism. That being said, I also think we should get the troops the heck out of the Middle East entirely. Afganistan is a disaster. With the ROE that the troops are given, they are sitting ducks. This kind of PC warfighting is just going to get our guys wasted. The tribal groups in Afghanistan are not able to be controlled, bought or otherwise. It is pointless, any nation that ever tried has failed. Hence the moniker "Graveyard of Empires." This country has much more grave issues than this bunk....We have an enemy of the state that is currently the head of state. I'd say getting rid of the pinko's in office is our priority number one.

Jeffrey wrote:

"...but that's one of the more humorous justifications I've seen for the entitlement mentality"

You think I have an entitlement mentality?

Let me see if I can explain this:

I do not believe in Welfare

I do not believe in inheritance

I do not believe in institutional or forced charity.

I do believe that everyone should work for everything they get, this includes paying the community that purchased your primary education. That's not gonna happen, but it is what I believe.

Now in order for people to work, they must be physically able to work. No arms, or legs, probably no work. so if we let people's arms and legs fall off because we do not supply health care except to those who can afford it, how are we to make those people work. I got to work WITHOUT a car for many years. and a nice warm home is not necessary for getting a job.

It amazes me that the same people who say "subsidized health care is socialism" also drive on the "freeway" get educated in our public schools, camp and hike in our national parks, and when they hit 65, accept medicare and social security both costing far more than what people who work full time all their lives pay in.

I am all for full blown capitalism if that is to be the system. Pay for everything, pay every mile you drive, pay for your primary education, and plan your own retirement or starve. That's fine with me, but we don't have that. we have a hybrid of a socialistic and capitalist economy. In light of that I want everyone to be healthy enough to work full time, and I'm much more willing to share the costs for that than I am to bail out banks, conduct wars we don't have to fight, and give perfectly healthy people disability because they CHOOSE to live a certain way using drugs, alcohol, or too many potato chips!

Having said that, the current health insurance reform bill is a turkey and should be sent to the dustbin.

Comparing a service (like healthcare) to infastructure like a highway, is just completely ignorant on it's face Harry....Oh, and all the millions of people with "no arms and legs", they should probably be on a full disability. Huh, funny I've never seen anyone with "No arms and legs"...And I've seen a lot of amputee's. By the way Stephen Hawking has no use of any extremities and he isn't on any sort of disability.

Obamaoluva wrote:

"Comparing a service (like healthcare) to infrastructure like a highway, is just completely ignorant on it's face Harry"

Why? because you need the highway, and do not currently need health care? ANYTHING infrastructure, service, or material goods that one receives at less remuneration then it costs to produce said infrastructure, service, or material goods, is engaging in socialism. That is not ignorant, it is simply fact.

Now comparing Stephen Hawking to the regular run-of-the-mill cripple, that might be a stretch.

Saddam did support terrorism.

For those of you who think Bush lied to get us in a war please look up U.N. Security Resolution 1441

Saying we already pay for everyones healthcare and thats why we should support Obamacare is specious argument. If any one can produce a receipt for a bill that they paid for my health care then I 'll believe it. Illegals clogging our emergency rooms, frivolous malpractice lawsuits, and government regulations on insurance companies, ie forcing them to cover things consumers may not need or want drive up the cost of health care.

Does anyone actually believe that a government run system will provide higher quality,cheaper healthcare to every citizen? It is truly laughable to think so.

Think Post Office Vs. Fed ex. The answer is more freedom less Government.

I have healthcare, I use the service that I pay for. I pay for highway use with taxes that I pay at the pump. I pay, I use....Comprendo? The issue at hand is, do the working, tax paying people of this country want to pay for yet another massive entitlement for people that don't pay anything. The answer is no. The citizen's DO NOT WANT a massive government run program. Scott Brown was just the beginning. The democrat/socialist slaughter is just starting. I for one can't wait for the bloodbath. By the way it's spelled prophet, not "profit", when refering to a religious messenger.(A post of yours from yesterday).

Libertarian and liberal need not be opposites..."classic liberals" were often rather libertarian.

We too often in this country - encouraged by those who profit from our confusion - use terms without understanding their historical context.

concernsme - 9:53 AM - You're half right. I do believe in protecting the unborn to the fullest. Your first statement, however, is just stupid.

EFB123 and Obamaoluva - Thanks. And I'm not planning on going anywhere anytime soon.

Drinky - 11:37 AM - On more than one occasion, I have laid the blame on both parties, and on President Bush for allowing government and spending to get out of control. It is the left that fail to put any blame on their party, you included. There's enough blame to go around. At least Bush was a Capitalist, not a Marxist like your messiah.

Saddam supported terrorism with money and with allowing terrorists to train in Iraq. Also, all of the materials needed to make WMDs has been found in Iraq. If people actually followed the real news, they'd know this. By the way, the mainstream media does NOT report the real news.

Under Obamacare, we will have to go through the Internal Revnue Service for our healthcare. Does anyone else find this obscene?

Can somebody tell me where in the Constitution the congress has the authority to mandate American citzens buy health insurance because I can't find it.

Why is Congress exempt from this mandate? We deserve the same healthcare as them.

Word christio, word up!

So Harry, You believe anytime that someone uses I 95 to drive to Boston they should pay the 5 billion adjusted dollars it would cost to build it at the time you use it. Sorry man that logic is so demented there is no rebuttle. I'm just stunned by the lunacy. Mt premise is simple. You want service you pay for it. You want to drive to Boston on I 95, pay the taxes for the use at the pump and the tolls. If you use un-taxed gas(Disel), you go to jail, happens everyday that's why they dye heating oil, so truckers can't use it in thier rigs. If you want an MRI, you don't have to pay 5 million dollars for the GE model 5720 Magnetic Resonance Imager. Logic Harry, please get some and come back for a real debate.

Way to go EJParsons

Christino In fact wasnt one of Obamas talking points was that we should have the same health plan as congress? Now the health bill looks more like what Mcain proposed? How do the libs justify supporting that?

Hi seeker, technically you are correct in asserting that Bush never DIRECTLY linked 9/11 with Iraq, but...consider the below.

"...Bush never directly accused the former Iraqi leader of having a hand in the attacks on New York and Washington, but he has repeatedly associated the two in keynote addresses delivered since 11 September. Senior members of his administration have similarly conflated the two..." See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3119676.stm ; and "In his prime-time press conference last week, which focused almost solely on Iraq, President Bush mentioned Sept. 11 eight times. He referred to Saddam Hussein many more times than that, often in the same breath with Sept. 11. Bush never pinned blame for the attacks directly on the Iraqi president. Still, the overall effect was to reinforce an impression that persists among much of the American public: that the Iraqi dictator did play a direct role in the attacks. A New York Times/CBS poll this week shows that 45 percent of Americans believe Mr. Hussein was "personally involved" in Sept. 11, about the same figure as a month ago..." http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p02s01-woiq.html

These folks in the Bush administration really thought - with some justification - that we citizens are ignorant, and that they could use their positions to influence public opinion. So they diverted us from Afghanistan to Iraq. How well has THAT worked?

I have family members who have served in both counties, and they don't think it has proven in our national interests...a waste of American lives and taxes.

Williams DS: Profit driven Healthcare provides the best health care in the world. I pretty sure doctors in North Korea have their salary controlled and I wouldn't want to go there for anything. You are just engaging in class warfare. You just can't stand that somebody wakes a lot of money do you?

We get pokeyboy, Bush lied people died....Now move on please Bush is gone. Your bud Obamao said we'd be out of there by now. I guess he's a liar to now huh? He also lied about a great many other things. Apparently he is a lying, liar who does nothing but lie. That's ok, he'll be gone in 2012, FER SURE!

I know my class...i'm from potato farmers who were from potato farmers who were from potato farmers, who...

Get the picture?

IMHO, a little class awareness - not warfare - would be a healthy thing, as we consider the ologarchy that has taken control of our country, oft working through both major parties.

Check out this piece from Newsweek (about as mainstream as you can get) A War on the Rich? http://www.newsweek.com/id/187933

For a more in-depth, if "liberal" (whatever tha means these days) perspective, see http://www.newsweek.com/id/187933

Alice, Ellie: good points.

I see if you are a libercrat you can write anything you want, but if you are a person who like FREEDOM you then get your comments erased

Gopher is a idiot

The United States is one of, if not the biggest, state sponsors of terrorism and terrorism training right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. Right down there in little ol' Georgia. But you never hear, have never heard, nor will ever hear, one of the right wing ideologues who post on here against terrorism say even one little word about it. Why? I'm glad you asked; I'll be happy to tell you. It's because they don't really care about morals, or ethics, or truth, or justice. They (that would be you if you're wondering) are simple and simple minded nationalists, exactly the same as those pesky little critters from Germany in the late 30's. They hold neither themselves nor their 'comrades' accountable, nor their countrymen who subvert every good and holy thing that this country once stood for. They take the word 'patriot' and so @*&#^!ize it that it becomes unrecognizable and an antonym to itself. You should be very proud of your hatred of humanity and righteousness. You're very good at the destruction you claim to hate.

"Now in order for people to work, they must be physically able to work. No arms, or legs, probably no work. so if we let people's arms and legs fall off because we do not supply health care except to those who can afford it, how are we to make those people work. I got to work WITHOUT a car for many years. and a nice warm home is not necessary for getting a job."

Harry, you list all those things that you say we are NOT entitled to and I agree with you, but then you go and suggest that we need this new entitlement of healthcare and you have about the lamest justification I've ever heard for it I really haven't noticed a lack of able bodied workers in the US due to lack of government paid for healthcare. It's surely not a problem worth possibly bankrupting the country over. Obviously I don't think we're all entitled to a government paid house or car, but neither should we all feel entitled to government paid healthcare. We are all free to buy ourselves the best healthcare available anywhere in the world as part of our individual pursuit of happiness. It's not an entitlement.

On 1/21/10 at 9:41 PM, RalphKramden wrote: Repeated separate thumbs down will cause comment to be hidden

The United States is one of, if not the biggest, state sponsors of terrorism and terrorism training right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. Right down there in little ol' Georgia. But you never hear, have never heard, nor will ever hear, one of the right wing ideologues who post on here against terrorism say even one little word about it. Why? I'm glad you asked; I'll be happy to tell you. It's because they don't really care about morals, or ethics, or truth, or justice. They (that would be you if you're wondering) are simple and simple minded nationalists, exactly the same as those pesky little critters from Germany in the late 30's. They hold neither themselves nor their 'comrades' accountable, nor their countrymen who subvert every good and holy thing that this country once stood for. They take the word 'patriot' and so @*&#^!ize it that it becomes unrecognizable and an antonym to itself. You should be very proud of your hatred of humanity and righteousness. You're very good at the destruction you claim to hate.

Can you show any evidence? I doubt it. Why dont you tell me why Hannah Pingree is rubbing elbows with self avowed communist?

Ralph Kramden has no facts to back up any of his unpatriotic dribble. Maybe we should send him to the moon? I don't understand why people with such loathing for their own counrty choose to life here when they are free to leave and go live somewhere else less supportive of terrorism like Saudi Arabia or Iran?

6:51 Pokeyboy Good response. Here is a couple of points to consider.

At the time the mainstream media continually asked questions about ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda. They and the left were fixated on this as the only acceptable reason to invade Iraq. Bush was obsessed with the potential Iraq danger to us and also wanted to send a message to all the sponsors of terrorism in the region that we were not to be messed with. I believe the Bush administration made a choice to take advantage of the media obsession and did not downplay the tenuous Iraq - Al Qaeda connections as they should have. The media ran with it and to them Al Qaeda equaled 9-11 so they commonly interchanged terms. Bush and his administration chose to let the media misrepresentations stand because it served their purpose and he will forever pay a price for having done so.

Saddam Hussein could have stopped the war before it began if he wanted to simply by letting in the weapons inspectors. The problem was that he had been misleading everyone as to the extent of his WMDs because it was fear of what he had that protected him from another invasion by Iran in particular. He knew that if weapon inspectors were allowed free reign that it would be revealed that he had either none or at least far fewer WMDs than he had led people to believe. (Personally I think he did have at least some and that he did hide them during the long run up to the invasion. It will be many years if ever before we know for sure.) The game would be up and while he didn't think the US would actually invade, he was pretty sure Iran would. He also believed the French, Germans, and USSR that they would be able to stop us in the UN.

The tangled webs we weave. And the prices we pay.

I spent some time on the web site of The Center for Public Integrity suggested as a source by tedlicker. Better than I thought in some ways and worse in others. I was unable to find the actual database of statements because I wanted to read them myself and see where Bush had lied. Couldn't find it and their examples they called the worst, I think pretty much supported my above opinion.

I looked at several other topics to get a feel for them and their accuracy. I felt the climate change section was a waste. Supreme court decision. Accurate description and analysis but one sided conclusions. The economic meltdown. Excellent description and analysis of the meltdown itself and of the banks role with a lot of good detail. But I could not find ONE word describing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's role and not ONE word of how congress imposed rules and regulations that encouraged and in some cases mandated the banks irresponsible risk taking.

I do have to chuckle when I read "the Republicans" shot down single payer or "the Republicans" prevented healthcare. Last time I looked, not one Republican vote was needed to pass anything. Actually, the Republicans...or ANY Republican for that matter, could prevent anything. The Republican party in DC is not even relevant at this time. It will be once Brown gets sworn in though. This mess was evidently so bad, the Democrats couldn't even agree on what was good for the people, or what was better for the unions and special interests. It was so bad, Democrats had to be bought or bribed to support it. Since no one has seen it, has no idea what went on behind CLOSED doors, how much each and everyone of us will pay (those who will be doing the paying), and who really benefits the most. This bill wasn't for We The People, it was a piece of garbage so they could say, WE MADE HISTORY! So enough with blaming the one group that couldn't prevent a thing. If any group was completely powerless to prevent anything, it was the Republicans. The Democrats couldn't stop tripping over themselves running to the trough or finding ways to make this a garbage piece of legislation. You want to blame someone for making some of these Dems take hee? Blame the people of this country, the ones who saw through the crap and knew what a bad deal this was...FOR US!

On 1/21/10 at 10:11 PM, blhitler wrote: Can you show any evidence?

The name of the terrorist training agency is The School Of The Americas. And just because you are ignorant of the existence of something does not mean that it does not exist. Do your homework, you know that little thing that you skipped up until you quit in sixth grade. Try to remember the world does not start at end with hitler, nazi boy.

I see we about to rewrite history yet again. That must mean we won.

Happy Talk vs Truth bY Elllie Light is a scam. Published all over the US,

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/01/letter_writer_claims_diverse_r.html

Ellie, Ellie, Ellie. Here is some truth fer ya. We are not buying your BS. "Ellie from bangor" you are a plant, a troll, and an idiot.

Drinky is a dumb-ocrat

Looks like Ellie Light is on a letter writing campaign. read http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/01/letter_writer_claims_diverse_r.html

The "Ellie Light" letter is a fraud perpetrated by a professional astroturfer. See Patterico. Thanks.

"Ellie Light" sure has a lot of hometowns.... http://patterico.com/2010/01/23/ellie-light-obama-astroturfer-or-very-very-very-energetic-but-independent-letter-writer/

Does she live in VEAZIE, or HERMON.........or maybe WINTERPORT, BDN???? That's the most pathetic excuse of a "ooops, we just got astroturfed" correction I have ever seen. You don't have the cahunas to tell your readers that the letter was a FRAUD...........you just say that "she doesn't live in Bangor". YOU are as pathetic as she is...............assuming she exists.

Bangorean, after reading a few dozen of your posts, I think it's fairly safe to say you're a liberal.

I'd deny it too, if I were you

Newsweek is "about as mainstream as you can get"??? Pokeyboy, you just squandered all of your credibility with that one statement.

(ex-Newsweek subscriber here).